The Spiritual Grind
Dr. Jenni PhD,RN,CHLC,CH and medium and Rev. James ORD, MhsB have spent countless years studying and practicing many modalities within the "Spiritual" domain. Dr. Jenni has dedicated her life to helping others by attending countless schools and developing each of her practices and strategies. Rev. James has studied many modalities and Native American practices and they have Both decided to open their library of knowledge to share this information with everyone in a down to earth style, with hope to assist in making your journey easier and more abundant.
The Spiritual Grind
Why people leave our bubble—and how to stop blaming ourselves while building healthier circles
Ever notice how certain people quietly step out of your life right when you start honoring yourself? We unpack that shift with open hands and clear language, exploring how fear, self-worth, and boundaries shape the bubble we keep—and the company we attract. Rather than spiraling into self-blame, we look at drifting relationships as data: signs that your standards are changing and your energy is recalibrating.
We dig into the difference between opinions and boundaries, and why real boundaries always come with consequences you can calmly carry out. You’ll hear practical ways to communicate without ultimatums, navigate heated topics with intention, and negotiate when both sides want a win. We also challenge the fixer mindset and codependency patterns that masquerade as compassion, offering simple checkpoints to know when you’re helping—and when you’re rescuing.
If fear has kept you frozen—worried about being alone, replaying the “why,” or yo-yoing on your standards—this conversation gives you a grounded path forward. Learn how to ask “why” for insight, not for victimhood. Practice “leave no doubt” clarity that protects your peace and preserves dignity on both sides. And if you’re leveling up your social circle, we talk about the awkward middle: how to fill the quiet with better habits, higher-vibe rooms, and people who thrive without drama.
We also share a quick update on our Spiritual Grind app and how creators can feature their tarot or oracle decks through our Creator Spotlight. If you’re an advertiser or investor, there’s a place for you too just go to www.thesaltytarot.net and you can find the tabs that will take you to the information. While your there you can also subscribe and get notice on when the Salty Tarot app drops.
If this resonates, subscribe, share with a friend who’s reworking their circle, and leave a review with one boundary you’re honoring this week—we’d love to hear it.
Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to the Spiritual Grind.
SPEAKER_00:Good morning.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, grinders, for listening. We appreciate you all.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we uh we definitely have put the video option on hold for a bit. Yeah. The app has taken all all over time. Uh quite a bit of our time. I wished we had the video up so that everybody could see some of the cat interaction that we talk about often.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh because the cat co-producer is live and in the house yet again.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. They like to wait until we get on air to do things. For some reason.
SPEAKER_00:I yeah. Gotta be all up in the business.
SPEAKER_01:Are you ready for the topic of the day?
SPEAKER_00:You have a topic.
SPEAKER_01:I do.
SPEAKER_00:I kind of surprised you were a little bit off sequence, so I wasn't sure. If you had a topic or not.
SPEAKER_01:I do have a topic.
SPEAKER_00:Do test.
SPEAKER_01:You know, we always say that life happens for you, not to you.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, we do.
SPEAKER_01:And my topic is about subjects within that. And that subject is pretty simple. But it can be very entailed. And that subject is why do we do things that eliminate us from people's bubbles?
SPEAKER_00:Mmm.
SPEAKER_01:And I was thinking about this this morning in the shower.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, because I've I've had it happen to me. You know?
SPEAKER_00:When you say that in the mornings, when you say that, I think of you sitting in the shower like the thinking man.
SPEAKER_01:If I had a chair in there, I probably would.
SPEAKER_00:But we don't have a chair in there, so I think it's a little small for a chair.
SPEAKER_01:On our new motorhome, we will have one though. I had to fold down kind of.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because they put them in all of them now, just about.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:But anyway, so like it's happened to me, you know, like uh I'll do things and then people just kind of fade off into the distance.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01:And and you get to under uh understand my thought process. I'm a very social individual.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:I I like interactions with people, I like to learn their stories. Yeah. And for me, when somebody distances themselves from me, I always start self-blaming.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, really?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like what did I do to piss them off?
SPEAKER_00:Or you know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And we a lot of people, as humans, you know, we as humans, have a tendency, I would say, to fall back on that. Not everybody, because I know you don't think that way.
SPEAKER_00:I particularly don't. But there was a time in my life where I did.
SPEAKER_01:And so, like, here's a prime example. There's a situation in my life that was it's historical that changed the perception of my bubble because of stories and stuff, and that were told to people that was completely not true.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so I'd stop and think, well, what did I do to deserve that? I started, you know, looking at myself.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And the reality is pretty much simple and for me is how I log in now, and then I'm gonna ask you to have your input in this subject. But how I logged it is after I learned, after I learned, was sometimes those bubbles just change. It ain't really got nothing to do with the stories. Because if if you're if you have somebody in your life that you view as a friend, a loved one, and they just disappear out of your bubble, it's really not because of anything other than it was just supposed to happen. And and but we as humans have a tendency to self-blame.
SPEAKER_00:Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so that's my topic of this morning is is understanding that things happen sometimes to you or for you, not to you, and you know, we talk about it all the time. But when we have things or people in our bubble that just kind of just fade into the distance, it's not your fault. It's because of Dr. Jenny's inclusion. Here we go.
SPEAKER_00:Can I have an applause?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I'm trying to become famous here.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's not applause, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, so you are exactly right. The changing of your social circle can bring about the human question of self-blame.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Gosh, did I make them mad? What did I do? Uh, and that's a good thing.
SPEAKER_01:Why is this happening to me?
SPEAKER_00:That's right. Uh, it's a good thing to ask those questions um because you always want to come uh uh from a place of kindness, compassion, love, and you don't want to go around being a douchebag or a bitch and inadvertently running people off because you haven't dealt with your own shitty diaper or your own baggage. Because that's one way that you can run people off and do kind of a self-isolation is that you have underlying baggage that you're not conscious or aware of, or just not ready to deal with that will actually keep people at an arm's length distance. Uh, for example, if you've gone through a lot of death and you've not dealt with the grieving, you may have a fear of getting close to someone because you've told yourself it's easier to not get close to them if they do die or disappear. So I just subconsciously am not going to get close to anybody and not let them in my bubble because that hurts less.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and they don't even realize they're doing it most of the time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's right. That's why I said it's usually a subconscious thing because they have an underlying uh belief or baggage around the fear of maybe death or separation or isolation. Um paradoxically enough, ironically enough, they have this underlying fear of being alone or being isolated, and subconsciously that is bringing about isolation and being alone because the universe says, okay, whatever energy you're putting out there, here's a heaping spoonful of it. Let me give it back to you.
SPEAKER_01:Especially fear.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, because fear is a is a huge energy, and it's the one word I will say this, and because I've done a lot of of uh studies on the religious documents. Yeah. And fear technically the term fear not shows up in every religious document out there multiple times.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And so to kind of marry it all together is if you are doing those things out of fear, that's it's a such a big energy that you will just bring it right into your reality very rapidly.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, you can even see it in wildlife and things like that. Uh uh the most prominent example we we've experienced on that topic is like a deer crossing the road, they can go into such a deep place of fear that it causes them to freeze and literally be hit by a car and bring about a death experience because they froze and didn't even know what to do. And that can that can happen. I pause for a second because I don't want to say this in the wrong way, but fear can literally freeze you into a place of not knowing what to do, not necessarily death.
SPEAKER_01:Right, yeah. But um we almost had one of those last night, actually.
SPEAKER_00:It can bring you into a place of uh that I call it the deer in the headlight syndrome where you're so afraid you don't know whether to go left, you don't know whether to go right, forwards, backwards, and it just stalls you out where you're at. So you're right. Fear is a very, very large uh contender in a lot of things. Yeah, it'll keep people from moving forward and changing and accepting the the dream job of their life, yeah, the perfect relationship. It'll even cause people not even to be able to see when the perfect job or the uh relationship they've been begging for is even right under their nose.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, or a financial decision or whatever. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Any part of that life pie, it can cause you not even to be able to see that.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:But there's additional components to what you said, so Yes, totally. That's one way.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Um you know, fear um when when allowed to manifest and grow into your reality will cause you to say to yourself, Why?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And in you know, because I hear it a lot. Why is this happening to me? Or why did this happen? Or you know, I even I I catch myself doing it and I ask myself why. You know, and I don't do it. Right. I don't do it out of fear though. I do it out of education now. I used to do it out of fear.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so that's a good piece to talk about the why. Um, because it's okay to ask the why. And in many, many, many situations when you're trying to clean up your belief programs and patterns, it is a crucial part of what I teach is to ask the why.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And be honest with yourself.
SPEAKER_00:Right. But don't get tangled up in needing to know and absolutely have to know the why before you move on to the next step because sometimes knowing the why is not part of the process.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:You can go too deep in having to know the why, and that will trip you up.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Um, if you're meant to know the why, and it's part of the bigger picture on uh getting you from where you're at to the next place where you're supposed to be, then you'll get the answer why as soon as you are uh not vibrating at the um victim level level.
SPEAKER_01:That's that's what it is. It's a victim mentality.
SPEAKER_00:When you're new to the awakening process, and even even still, you know, we've been doing this for 30 plus years. Sometimes you can get tangled up in the why too deeply. Right. And it can um put you back in that victim mode for a second. That's where you take it too far.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I agree.
SPEAKER_00:If you go into the why phase and you let it drag you into the why is this happening to me, woe is me, um, I don't understand, and you get tangled up and hang out in that pond too long, it can take your vibrational frequency down pretty low. And you can actually go into uh the victimhood depression, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um and lowering boundaries. That's one thing that happens. A lot of people will just suddenly remove their boundaries out of fear.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I'm gonna oh my god, I'm gonna be alone. So let me, you know what, let me just let me talk to him.
SPEAKER_01:I really miss my friend. Right. And and I uh you know, it's my fault. And and I just need to be more understanding, or I just need to you know, I we hear that a lot out of people.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And what that don't understand is that that's the trap.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That is the trap because it will cre it creates a yo-yo effect, and you will keep yo-yoing yourself right into oblivion if you can if you don't learn to withstand and understand that it it's it comes down to a lot of this comes down to, and I don't want to jump ahead of you too much, but it comes down to your self-worth.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And I want to back up and talk more about the oblivion part of it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Give some examples.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, totally.
SPEAKER_00:If the if the relationship is between you and a friend, and um they are continually crossing a boundary for you, and you have an underlying fear of being alone, for example. Right. You'll hold to the consequences of someone crossing a boundary for a little while, but then when it taps on that trigger point for you of, oh my gosh, I'm sitting here alone and I I don't like it, you'll start slowly putting that boundary wall down.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:And you'll go back into the old habits of, well, maybe they've changed. Let me just reach out to them because it feels better to talk to them and and the things they were doing, they weren't that bad. Right.
SPEAKER_01:And I just was overreacting. I've heard that one before, too.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. And so you'll put your boundary down because having the boundary in place and sticking to your guns feels more uncomfortable than compromising and putting your boundary wall down and saying, Okay, well, you know what? I'll just talk to them for a little bit right now. Yeah. But what you're teaching that other person is that you're gonna set your boundaries and in a certain portion of time, you're gonna get over whatever it is you were going through, and you're gonna let that person back in, and they're gonna say, Okay, this person is unhappy about something, and I know in a week or two's time they'll get over it, they'll be fine, and then we'll go right back to the way that we were.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Especially if you're working on teaching yourself how to honor, um, not being run over or taken advantage of, and you find yourself in a situation where that circle of people that you have been allowing in your bubble were all have the same characteristics of kind of running over you, and you're now deciding it it's I'm done with that crap.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And you start to um put that boundary in place and say, no more. I want a different circle of friends. There can be a moment in time where it does feel lonely.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, totally.
SPEAKER_00:Um, but that's an opportunity for you instead of focusing on the fact that you're alone and you don't necessarily have a social network for a small amount of time.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Because you have to remember as soon as you get rid of the garbage, you make room in the garage for new things, or in the house for new things, or in your life pie for new relationships. But you gotta get a you gotta get the old stuff out first, especially whenever you're creating new boundaries and new beliefs.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:There is gonna be a moment of time where it does feel a little bit lonely. And with us having worked with the hundreds and hundreds of people, we hear that a lot. A lot.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Going through our spiritual awakening process sometimes feels so lonely. That's because your circle of uh your social network is changing because you're aligning with a whole new group of people that are vibrating at that higher level, and you just gotta stay focused on what your initial desire was, and that's to create a new social network where people treat you kind and they honor your boundaries, and they are healthy relationships, not you know, victimhood relationships or codependent relationships or just flat out shitty relationships. There is going to be that echo moment of time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, and it's a human, it's a human habit. If you find yourself if you're going through an awakening process and you find yourself in a lonely place, it's because you're not creating new habits to put yourself in places to meet your new people.
SPEAKER_00:Or doing something that distracts you while that energy spins down.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_00:Everything is energy, and if you've spent your, you know, 20 years of your life having this social network where you're the doormat for everybody, that's a lot of energy that's been invested into this pattern, these habits. Yeah. And so when you begin to change that, you've got to give space for that energy to create the full circuit and spin out and spin down so that the new circuit can, I guess, um, obtain momentum.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Nothing happens instantaneously for most people, especially in the early stages of the awakening process. There's always that lead time or that little bit of gap between what you're wanting now and what you had before.
SPEAKER_01:The dead time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that dead time.
SPEAKER_01:And that's really that's the the point of self-awakening and self-preservation and self-worth, and that's where you kind of build your own new beliefs inside of you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you're building your own new world, basically.
SPEAKER_01:I know when I went through that time of being by myself and I when I uh I was self-reflecting on things, you know, because I had friends that I missed and I had friends I didn't miss, and and I had people that just disappeared out of my reality, and then I had people that came into my reality that I didn't really care for.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And so I really stopped and self-reflected on being okay and having enough self-value to say, you know, I'm okay being who I am, where I am, and how I am.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And if they don't like it, that's their fault.
SPEAKER_00:That's their problem. That's their problem. That's their baggage.
SPEAKER_01:So it c it falls back on on uh self-value. And when I I remember when that that girl I was there was a girl that I worked with at one of the or at the ORI convention one year and I did an aura reading for her. Yeah. And uh I I picked up on that she was a lesbian. And and I was like, oh, so you really need to tell your dad. Oh I can't. I've been avoiding it for I don't. I don't even you know, I don't even take my my girlfriend with me to the family things. And I'm like, well, why? Oh, my dad would hate me. Is that something that you've considered? Oh yeah, I wish I could for years. Well, if you don't value the preservation of yourself, then he's not gonna value it.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And so it it's not about the subject, it's about the presentation that you do, and you gotta have the self-worth and self-value inside of you to stop and say, My dad's gonna love me, or he's not, and either way is okay, but this is me. Yeah, this is who I am. I'm not gonna allow this to continue to go on in this direction. And blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, the next day she came back and she actually went home and called her dad, and her and her girl went and met him. And guess what?
SPEAKER_00:He was fine with it.
SPEAKER_01:He was completely fine with it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because it's a monkey mind story, and sometimes that happens.
SPEAKER_01:She had to hug me uh a fifty times.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And and I was like, you see, it's i your fear was allowing you to lower boundaries.
SPEAKER_00:And tell a story that wasn't even tell a story in your head that wasn't true.
SPEAKER_01:Right, you're totally right. And but the fear of it behind it was in her self-value.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because she wasn't valuing herself enough to say, listen, this is where I'm at.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And when you get caught in that trap, it just gives you that loop of wow, you know, I I'm I'm just useless and in it, and you lower your value, and you you can't get caught up in that yo-yo.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, that's one of the things that I work with people on. And we play this game. I teach them to be their own best friend.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You've got to be your own best friend, and you've got to decide how you want to be treated and treat yourself that way first so that you can align with people who will treat you that way. And you've got to stick to that. Right. Treating yourself with uh honor and respect and um that will bring about self-value and increase your value.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:If you're being shitty to yourself by self-criticizing or judging every stinking little thing you do, oh it's happens to you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right. That I shouldn't have done that. Um that was I should be more understanding. I was so selfish, or all of that is is you not being your own best friend or your own um what do you call it? Your own personal parade or your own personal uh value system. Right. And that will bring uh okay, so let me break this down. You when you have the the lower frequency where you're self-criticizing and you're self-judging, which has in turn decreased your self-value, your self-worth, that's a certain energy, that's a certain frequency that you're putting out there. And so I think RuPaul said it best if you can't love yourself, how the hell are you gonna love anybody else?
SPEAKER_01:That's correct.
SPEAKER_00:That is absolutely 100% true because they're two different frequencies.
SPEAKER_01:Shout out to RuPaul.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure. You have to do some reflection. And, you know, I talked about a while ago, there's always this intermittent pause when you're doing heavy belief work, such as setting boundaries where you didn't used to, and waiting for that energy to spin out. Part of the reason that there's that lapse or that lead time and waiting for that energy to spin down is giving you an opportunity to go within and work on any of the extra little garbage that's hanging out of the trash bag, such as self-worth. Am I treating myself the way I want other people to treat me? Am I holding that frequency? Am I carrying that frequency? And then what will happen is you'll give yourself little pop quizzes.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, totally.
SPEAKER_00:You'll have that same person cross your path and attempt to behave the way that they were behaving, right? Just so you can test yourself to see, did that belief stick? Am I truly okay with this new belief that I've put in place? But you'll you'll notice that it feels different. Yeah. If you've truly put that belief in place and it's clean and clear and in place, rocking and rolling.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:If uh you come across that person in your path and you're perfectly comfortable and no restriction in the body, and you're able to have a nice, cordial, well, hello, how are you? How have you been? Right. And then you two go on about your path, then you know that that belief is pretty much in place, very clean, very clear. Right. If you've given yourself that pop quiz and that person comes across your path, and all of a sudden you find yourself in self-judgment, or going back to that place of, you know, what did I do in that relationship to make that person go away? Or I must have done something uh that pissed them off, or you go back into that place where you were, that's the point to where you catch it.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Because there's a little bit more work for you to do. It's not necessarily something you did. It was because you changed a boundary and a belief that you know you're no longer allowing this person to do their uh walking on you like you're a doormat or manipulating the situation.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Yep, totally.
SPEAKER_00:And you can't fall back into the trap of that.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:It's not helpful.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I agree with you. And so I think the a key factor in a lot of this is understanding the ownership of who owns what and what what you own, what you don't own, what you control, what you don't control. Because the reality is is you can't make people do anything. You can't force them to be something they're not. You can you can't force them to be in your bubble within boundaries. You know, you have to own the fact that A, you have boundaries, you have self-worth, and you you you have if they choose to live outside of those boundaries, that's their choice.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and that's a very, very key thing to remember is setting boundaries for yourself does not make you a horrible person. No, it doesn't make you a mean person.
SPEAKER_02:That's correct.
SPEAKER_00:It doesn't mean that you're being unloving or not kind-hearted. I went through this for a small time in my life because I had tangled up in there years ago that if I set boundaries and I told somebody no, they couldn't be in my bubble, or no, they couldn't do that to me, I thought that it was me not being compassionate and understanding of their journey and not loving. Right. And that and I had that defined as in order to be a kind and loving individual, I had to let people run over me because that was allowing them to be wherever they are in their path or their journey. What I came to realize is, and I updated my processes, that it's okay for them to be in their journey where they are. I don't have to judge it or be a part of it.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And because I am putting a boundary in that says it's not okay for you to behave that way to me. And so for that reason, you don't get to be in my bubble, didn't mean that I was being a bitch or that I didn't love them or that I wasn't being compassionate of their journey.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:It just meant that it was me defining my own bubble on what I wanted it to look like and how I wanted to be treated.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, totally.
SPEAKER_00:Because sometimes shadow work, as we say, is not a spa day. It's not a day at the effing spa.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I heard one time.
SPEAKER_00:And it um can be challenging and it can be difficult. And it it it's hard enough without judging yourself, I guess. What was that? It was the it was the channel uh downloading.
SPEAKER_01:So, you know, there I I heard one time on the that show Sex in the City. Sarah Jessica Parker said something to one of the girls, this was year many years ago, and she was like very promiscuous and she slept around and blah blah blah blah blah. And the the girl that slept around and stuff hadn't called her in a few days. And she blogged about it. She was a blogger on the show and she wrote blogs and everything. And in the process of doing all of this, when she asked the girl, uh she's listening, she said, Well, I didn't think you'd want to, you know, want to talk to me while I'm doing my stuff because of the comment you made. And because I guess in one of the previous episodes, she made a comment about her being promiscuous and blah blah blah blah blah blah. And she said, Well, just because you do things I don't like don't mean I'm not gonna be your friend.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Or do things that I wouldn't do, don't mean I'm gonna be your friend. And so looking at things from that perspective of when things are happening in your bubble don't mean it's happening, you know, because of your boundary, and you can accept it or not, and it's not breaking a boundary when you say to that person, Hey, I love you for who you are, I wouldn't be that way. But you know, it is what it is.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and so that is a good next. Uh level thing that you're bringing up. Yep. Um okay, so let me ask you this. If you have someone, how do you know the difference between, okay, they're crossing a boundary and I need them to be out of my life or my bubble, or they're behaving in a way I don't necessarily like, but it's okay for them to stay uh as a friend or uh whatever their title is in your bubble. How do you know the difference? That would be what I ask you.
SPEAKER_01:You know, you and I actually had this conversation the other day about one of our friends. You know, just because it feels to you that it is not what you want. You know, it's a choice. You can say, wait a minute, is this is this really is this person acting in this way because um because they're aggressive or whatever, you know, whatever the topic is. Because you have to be able to stop and say, are they really doing this to me? Or are they is that just them? Um and what is their intention behind it?
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Because that's where the true boundary comes into play, is the intention behind what they're doing.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Because like with you and I, I think we have a phenomenal relationship.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:But how do we? Because there are we are both very independent, very headstrong people. We came into our relationship not because I needed you or you needed me. We came we we came together very independent and very healthy in a lot of areas, but we still have many topics where we don't see eye to eye. Or I mean, I'll irritate you, you'll irritate me. It doesn't mean that I'm gonna shove you out the door because you've crossed a boundary, right? Or you vice versa, shove me out because I've crossed a boundary. So how are we making that work and what are we doing? Um, can you give specific things that we do?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I do just that. I do I do just what I said. Well, how I do that is is is so I ask myself, is this person doing this to me? Like for you, like if there's something that we don't agree on, I just say to myself, it's okay to not agree. Don't mean I don't love her.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and it's okay, you know, and a lot of the times I'll I will say, and you'll say to me, Well, how did you come to that? Or you know, what what what is it? Because maybe there's something I'm missing. And that's the secret to it is when somebody you view as crossing your boundary come or doing things, you have to say to yourself, Are they doing this to me? You know, is is am I feeling this way about what they're doing because I don't know? Maybe there's something I'm missing in life. Maybe there's maybe I can come to a different viewpoint.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So let's let's let's see if we can break it down a little more simple.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Because the question I'm putting out there is how do you know the difference between the people that you do let stay and the people that you have to make go away because they're not honoring your process and your boundaries. Right. And what I would say from my perspective is if something happens, the first thing I would do is I would check in with it and I would say, okay, are there any of my major boundaries that this is crossing? And have I communicated with that person that that they are crossing a boundary is not a boundary without being communicated. That's right. That they have crossed a boundary for me and go back into negotiation of how can we handle this differently. And the second part to that would be if the other person is willing to go into a relationship negotiation and honor the boundary that you have communicated, then you can come to a win-win negotiation and they will uh be able to make the choice of, okay, I honor your boundary, and I am at a place in my journey where I can not do that anymore. Or I can modify what I'm doing and do that. The thing is, is that you've communicated that to them. And if they communicate back to you that opposite of that, I honor your boundary, but I am not at a place where I can behave in that manner.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So therefore, I have to move on for now.
SPEAKER_02:Or wait a minute.
SPEAKER_00:Or I have to uh limit our interaction together. It's a choice.
SPEAKER_01:You know, you asked. It's a choice of you have to learn to say, I'm keeping my boundary here, just like we do. Right. I'm keeping my boundary here, and you're keeping your boundary there. Yeah. And I'm going to accept your boundary at where it is, and I'm going to accept my boundary where it is. And this topic is just off the table.
SPEAKER_00:Right. It can be a topic.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And we just don't talk about it until we've gone internally and really looked at the topic and why it's offensive or why it's bothersome, or does it need modification?
SPEAKER_01:Right. Is there something I'm missing in the case? That's about humility too. That's right. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Or are we just in a place because we're two different people that that particular topic we just don't agree on? And if we want to talk about it, we know that we have to talk about it in the presence of energy that is uh been set up in a right way so that it doesn't bring about an argument or heated discussion. You know, make sure if it's a heated topic, you go into that conversation if you're needing to conversate. Right. Very calm, very mild, very mellow. Don't do it after you've had a shitty day at work and then try to bring up a sensitive topic and expect it to go calm, cool, and collected.
SPEAKER_01:Because your emotions are already off.
SPEAKER_00:So then you but then there are situations where uh you know you set a boundary out there and the person just can't honor that boundary. That's right. You get to then choose are you okay modifying your boundary? Right. Are you it's kind of like ping pong, you know? You've communicated it out there, they bounce it back to you, they can't honor it. Then you now get to go back in and do some internal reflection. Right. Okay, am I at a place where A, I can modify my boundary and it still feels okay and it still feels good? B, do I want to modify my boundary or is it important enough that it must stay in place? Right. Um, and then C would be if I can modify, did I communicate that back to them that says, okay, I honor where you're at. I am willing to modify this boundary permanently, temporarily, right, until you've had time to uh go in internally and reflect, or I'm willing to modify this boundary indefinitely and just agree to disagree. Right. And we're gonna talk about this topic when we're cool, calm, and collective and we've both had some energetic Xanax.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's see, that's where I think is one of the key points of this is it's okay with anybody for you to set a boundary and for them to set a boundary. Absolutely. The key to it is the respect of each other's boundaries.
SPEAKER_00:And communicating that.
SPEAKER_01:Right. You know, like like uh the the reference I made, Sarah Jessica Barker telling the girl this just because you do things I don't I wouldn't do don't mean I'm not gonna be your friend.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:You know, and I had a in personal development class in high school, I had a coach, Ted Foster, and he said he said one time, only a fool thinks he's always right.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:And it when you can look at it in that perspective and choose to love that person or not love that person, or choose to love yourself or not love yourself in that moment, you know, it's all about being you humili uh humble enough to say, you know, well maybe Dr. Jenny's perspective is right. Or maybe James's perspective's perspective is right. And it it is i because just because you think that because of your life experiences, you have to keep your boundary here doesn't mean that it's right.
SPEAKER_00:But on the flip side of that, I wanna put out there uh to I want to say that it is perfectly okay as well to be very stern about certain boundaries and to put them in place.
SPEAKER_01:100% agree with you.
SPEAKER_00:And if that means that the person doesn't get to be in your bubble, that is okay as well.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And not to flip out, not to panic, right, and not don't continue to be a doormat. Yeah, never be a doormat b to somebody because they're not willing to budge on a shitty boundary or not honor your boundary and give space to it being, especially if they're not willing to every relationship, no matter what kind it is, is a two-way street. Right. And you can't know what the other party is doing, thinking or whatever when they have, and you can't even hear them if they have their heads stuck up their ass and they're being an asshole. Right. Um, and so if you're giving them opportunity to conversate and they're choosing not to conversate and won't even communicate with you, you can only participate to to the point of where you can participate by yourself. You can't do it by yourself either.
SPEAKER_02:Right, I agree.
SPEAKER_00:You can't negotiate only by yourself. And so if you're in a relationship, be it a friend, be it a business, be it a job, be it a intimate relationship, if they are not being an active participant in the negotiation and communication of the boundaries and where each other is, then you really can't do anything about it because you can't control another person.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:If you're putting out there, hey, I want to talk about this, and they're ignoring you, right, or they won't even have a conversation, um, they won't even give you a second of their time to say, I understand you want to talk about that, but I'm not at a place where I can.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:That is even okay.
SPEAKER_01:That's right, yep.
SPEAKER_00:Because then that gives the other person we've had that exact conversation opportunity to decide, okay, is this so important that I must conversate right now about it? Or can I honor this person's request to put it on a temporary hold? It you know, communication opens the door of allowing each person to know where the other person is and getting to decide where they are within the topic or the setting or the situation, yes, and being able to go back and forth and negotiate what is the next thing, the best next thing that we're gonna do in our relationship.
SPEAKER_01:Right. I want to talk about one part of that we have worked with people and I see them do this constantly. And that is an ego part of this. Oh, I have a boundary, but I'm gonna help this person fix theirs.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And because it's a reciprocated yo-yo effect of danger, because the reality is this if that person is not humble enough to say, you know what, let me look at my boundary and I respect yours, you can't fix them anyway.
SPEAKER_00:No, and there's definitely people out there that have adopted the fixer relationship mentality that uh uh it is my mission in life, and I was brought here for the sole purpose of coming into your life and fixing all of your bullshit.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, I see what men do it all the time. The damsel in distress disorder.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm gonna say that is a bunch of cop-out bullshit that's your baggage, and if you're living that life, you're only opening yourself to a shit ton of trauma drama and disappointment.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, totally.
SPEAKER_00:You cannot do anything for anybody as far as changing them or making them behave in a certain way unless they want to.
SPEAKER_01:Right. It's like even with us when we're with clients, they come to us repetitively with the same topic. And we say to them, Listen, I can't keep doing this with you until you are humble enough to stop and do the work. And if they approach you with a boundary, you know, if they approach you about it and they're open and receptive to talk, that's the only time you might, and I mean like my new chance, be able to help them fix their stuff. Because they have to be open and receptive. And unless you know what's really going on.
SPEAKER_00:Might's on a chicken's ass.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's right. That's where the only place that's what my dad used to always say. Ah, yes, only uh the only place you'll find mites is on a chicken's ass. But that is the key part in the reciprocating yo-yo that people get caught in that trap of that, oh, I can fix them or I can I can help this. And the reality is is they're not gonna fix themselves with you interjecting.
SPEAKER_00:And if you think that they've got all these things to fix, I'm gonna tell you ten times out of ten. It's you. You have all those things that you need to fix. And so internal uh looking and going within to see what kind of, you know, shitty britches you're walking around in. Right. It would be a very, very healthy opportunity to clean up your own dam.
SPEAKER_01:You know, there was a phrase back in the 90 that said, you know, they said, leave no doubt. And do you remember that? When uh I think it was it was one of the movies that came out on. The football movie, but it was a pretty popular saying back then of when you conquer something, you leave no doubt.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Do you see?
SPEAKER_01:You know, I'm so I'm so good at this that I will leave no doubt. And what I'm saying to that is I use that phrase a lot in my own mind of leaving no doubt.
SPEAKER_00:What does that mean though?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it means that leave no doubt of where you stand or who you are. And that falls down to boundaries and communication. And so when we when you and I talk, when we leave the conversation, we don't have any doubt about where the other one stands.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And it's about the clear communication because it we don't agree on everything. There's a lot of things we don't agree on.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's right, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But I I respect your boundaries and you respect mine, and until I am to until A comes up again to where we can talk about it openly and without emotions and have like a logical conversation about it.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Or B, I choose to leave no doubt where I stand on it. And I think everybody in life should too. You know, you should have the self-preservation tool inside of you to leave no doubt, be it communication, be it self-worth, be it whatever that is, be strong enough within yourself to make sure that everybody in your bubble they understand where they are.
SPEAKER_00:And so how would you suggest one get to that point, especially if they're hovering around in the fear template of being alone, for example, or victimhood?
SPEAKER_01:Or fear.
SPEAKER_00:Or fear. How do you get to a place where you don't doubt your own self so that you can leave no doubt when you're talking to another human being? Especially if their personality is sometimes bigger or louder or more assertive or even aggressive, confused with assertion.
SPEAKER_01:Well, the the how do you get to that place? The reality of this is we are human.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And no matter what happens, there's gonna always be part of inside of you that makes you doubt something. And so that is where it's very crucial for you to communicate with yourself. I don't care if you gotta walk off by yourself, talk through the process, and if somebody is breaking one of your boundaries, you have to have that conversation that and and be very clear that boundaries come with what the if they come with ifs. No, they come with consequences, consequences. That's the word I was looking for.
SPEAKER_00:Call it what it is.
SPEAKER_01:So my boundary is this. If you do this, this is what I will do. And consequences And it's not what you're gonna they're gonna do. It's what you you say what I am going to do.
SPEAKER_00:That's what I was just about to go in the direction of.
SPEAKER_01:Correct.
SPEAKER_00:Because ultimatums do not work.
SPEAKER_01:Right. If you do this, then I'm if you don't do this, I'm gonna do that. And blah, blah, blah you can't do ultimatums. Ultimatums do not work.
SPEAKER_00:They put a person in the defense mode absolutely within a zero to sixty second uh situation, and it will turn into an all-out fight because people don't like to be given ultimatums. Oh, yeah, you're gonna do that? Well, let's fucking find out. Yeah, yeah. Fuck around and find out. Fuck around and find out.
SPEAKER_01:And that's where the the point of leave no doubt is the conclusion of that is you can't set a boundary and give a consequence to that boundary unless it's very clearly communicated. That's right. And that's how you leave no doubt. And you have to be, when you set that boundary and that consequence to that boundary, you have to stand behind it. Otherwise, it's just like a child that that uh every time you go to the store, you say no, but you end up buying it for it anyway. That's why they repetitively do it.
SPEAKER_00:Not before you count to three.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you gotta count to three.
SPEAKER_00:Make sure you count to three.
SPEAKER_01:That is the stupidest thing I'd ever see.
SPEAKER_00:And then you just give in and you give it to them anyway, because at the end of three, they throw themselves in the floor and start screaming and wailing.
SPEAKER_01:Right. You know, it's like And and that actually brought up a very good memory. What you just said. You know, I remember when my one of my my daughter was very young.
SPEAKER_00:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01:And I used to have a baby gate up. We had this porch that was elevated.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I would sit in the chair and I would let her play on the front porch outside and you know, with a baby gate up. And then she got old enough, I I took the baby gate down.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And one day she looks back at me. I'm in the chair, and she looks down the stairs, and then she looks back at me, and I just look at her and said, Listen, if you do that, it's gonna hurt. And she had this look in her eyes, and you know what she did? She stepped off the stairs. She did it. All seven stairs down to the bottom, head over butt overhead, just kidding, nookin it down the stairs like a slinky. And she landed on the bottom step on her butt, and she sat there. Didn't move, didn't do anything. She just sat there.
SPEAKER_00:Analyzing what just happened.
SPEAKER_01:Analyzing what just happened.
SPEAKER_00:Or saying to herself, fuck, he was right. That did hurt.
SPEAKER_01:And so I looked down at her. I went in, I went down. I didn't panic because I mean, let's just be real, these are six inches high, they're not gonna hurt her. Yeah. Um, I mean, she ended up with a pretty good bruise on her forehead, but she, you know, right up the and I looked down and I said, I told you. Now that's a boundary. Guess what? She never crossed that boundary again because she had clear consequences, and when she crossed the boundary, it hurt.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And that's how we have to look at life when it comes to our own personal boundaries.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And it is a choice. Like if you had if you do something I don't like, that's something I wouldn't do. That's not a boundary. That's a that's opinion. That's an opinion. That's right. You know, like Sarah Jessica Parker and her friend that was promiscuous.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Sarah Jessica Parker chose not to participate in her actions, but that doesn't mean that she can't be her friend.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:It just means that her opinion of that situation is they differ.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And so that is not a boundary.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:So understanding the differences between boundaries and opinions is key to boundaries come with consequences.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_01:And that consequence has to be something that you have really thought through in your head.
SPEAKER_00:And you're willing to walk the the That's right.
SPEAKER_01:You're ready to take yourself down those stairs.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And and and I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but don't go into setting a boundary, coming up with the consequence. Right. And then realizing, oh, the consequence doesn't feel good to me either. Let me backtrack and let me put this boundary down because I didn't think about how the consequence is going to make me feel. Yep. And because doing that will bring up potential places where you have an opportunity to clear with stuff that is not beneficial. So if it if it brings up and dings you on the head with a fear of being alone, that's a great opportunity to look at that. There, you're not ever alone. And um so what I'll I have two topics I want to talk about being alone. Number one, if you change your boundary and you find yourself temporarily alone and it's not feeling so good.
SPEAKER_01:You mean you change your boundary? Or is that what you meant to say?
SPEAKER_00:Right. So, like if you're new and you've been the doormat, okay, and you decide I'm tired of being the doormat, so I'm gonna change my boundaries.
SPEAKER_01:That's a better example.
SPEAKER_00:And I no longer want to mingle with people who are going to shit on me or wipe their feet on me constantly and take advantage of my kindness because I have a underlying belief that says I would rather be a doormat and be shit on than to be alone.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:That belief in place will cause you to subconsciously act in that manner. Yes. And that's called codependency. Yeah, not cold, code.
SPEAKER_01:Code. Codependency. I said code, that's funny.
SPEAKER_00:I have a fat tongue. So having a healthy relationship means you set the boundary, it's no longer an option to treat me that way. You're sticking to the consequence, and that momentary place where you perceive that you're alone, stop and look at that. Right. Because you are maybe overlooking the new set of people right under your nose that could be at the vibrational frequency that having that boundary in place is lifting you to. Correct. Yep. And making it okay to interact with them and practicing being at that new frequency with this new vibe of people.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Because what you're gonna find is that next level of vibrational people, they don't want to be part of the trauma drama, they don't want to talk about negative Nancy crap and stay in that. So it's a practiced habit. You can't change social networks and expect the new higher vibrational platform of people be okay talking about the negative shit of the world or wanting to have those. And so, what it will do is what I'm trying to say, is it may fit make you feel like temporarily that you're not part of the tribe. Right. Uh, and so you just practice how to have new you're gonna be socially awkward in that new ring of people, and that's okay because you gotta learn and train yourself. What do you talk about when you've talked about nothing but the outlying trauma drama? Yep. Right?
SPEAKER_01:Yep, I agree.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and I don't currently remember what the other thing was.
SPEAKER_01:So that's a wrap then. Real quick update on the app. Yes, so we are so close, so exciting. So, so close, guys. They rolling out the free version. Uh, go to www.thsalty tarot.net and subscribe on there. And hey, listen, if you are a metaphysical creator, if you do tarot oracle cards, we are going to allow a portal to put your deck in our app. You can also see it on that website, www.thesalty tarot.net. Uh click on the creator spotlight program. It's on the top right of the website, and go through that and understand and read it. And if you are a creator, then you uh follow the steps.
SPEAKER_00:And what does that mean exactly? You're gonna let them sell their product from the app, or are you gonna actually spotlight their tarot uh or Oracle cards as some that are used within the app to have people interact with it? Like what does that mean?
SPEAKER_01:So, what it means that we will do is we will put your deck actually in the app operating so people can see it working.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And we will make a spot where we're gonna have a spotlight page on our website to where you'd be a spotlight, and there's gonna be a link in the store to where they can buy that deck.
SPEAKER_00:I see. And that's for a fee though.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's not a setup fee, really. I mean, you know, and then we're gonna ask for a commission off the sales.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Um, but you're gonna put your deck in front of hundreds of thousands of people.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, millions.
SPEAKER_01:You know, and so it's uh uh yeah, it's a beneficial thing. And there the setup fee is basically for the coding because we have to code it all into the app.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And uh we're gonna do those thirty days at a time, and we may do more than one feature per month. You know, we could do we could actually do a couple Toro Tarot, a couple Oracle, and let people pick which deck they want to use, and and uh we'll have you'll have a spotlight section on our website. Anyway, go to the website, www.thesalty tarot.net. All the information is in there. Click on creator spotlight program.
SPEAKER_00:And don't you have a tab on there for the investor site as well, which is like the the little commercials, what are they called? Ads.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, there is a yes, there's a place for you to run an ad in there if you have an Etsy store and you just click on the advertise in the app section. And if you're an investor, we are currently in a funding round. You can go on that same website, it's all in there.
SPEAKER_00:Um, because we have two more phases that have to develop. Yep. Well, technically four, because once we get all the iOS done, then we're gonna go into the Google side that you're good. Yep. Um, so real quick clarification you said the Etsy store. It's you it's not just an Etsy store that you have to have. No, that's an example.
SPEAKER_01:That's just an example. Yes, it tells you that in it.
SPEAKER_00:Like a brick and mortar store. Yeah, you could run an ad at the bottom of the app, that's good.
SPEAKER_01:There's two places we have regular and premium locations. And uh that's all in the app as well.
SPEAKER_00:And that and that's all described.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, it's all described in the app.
SPEAKER_00:Perfect. All right, very good.
SPEAKER_01:Um, anyway, guys, we appreciate y'all listening. Don't forget to like, follow, and share. And share and comment and do everything because the more you engage, the easier it is to keep this podcast running.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And ring that bell.
SPEAKER_01:All right, guys, you all have an awesome day.
SPEAKER_00:Love ya, and then we're gonna be able to
